Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Mar 23, 2016 15:46:28 GMT
Why would you ever run a scarf mon on a defensive team, imho it just doesn't fit, and even then there are way better options for said defensive team. Because I don't like losing to Simis. There are some great defensive options that can help with simis, but honestly I know exactly what you mean. We really need to ban simisear honestly.
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Post by skankovich on Mar 25, 2016 12:10:30 GMT
Lampent is pretty decent, a sub salac simi counter is great for offensive teams, and it's STAB combo and spattk means it pulls it's weight offensively too. Also a gourgeist switchin which is great for offense too. It doesn't wall simisear with knock off though:
0 Atk Life Orb Simisear Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Lampent: 179-213 (55.2 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Even a phys def set is 2hko'd after rocks:
0 Atk Life Orb Simisear Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Lampent: 117-140 (36.1 - 43.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That said, I think it could even go C.
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Mar 25, 2016 22:06:26 GMT
Lampent is pretty decent, a sub salac simi counter is great for offensive teams, and it's STAB combo and spattk means it pulls it's weight offensively too. Also a gourgeist switchin which is great for offense too. It doesn't wall simisear with knock off though: 0 Atk Life Orb Simisear Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Lampent: 179-213 (55.2 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Even a phys def set is 2hko'd after rocks: 0 Atk Life Orb Simisear Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Lampent: 117-140 (36.1 - 43.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock That said, I think it could even go C. When I said it walled simisear with knock I meant 4 Atk Life Orb Simisear Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Lampent: 120-143 (37.1 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
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Post by skankovich on Mar 26, 2016 10:53:30 GMT
Lampent is pretty decent, a sub salac simi counter is great for offensive teams, and it's STAB combo and spattk means it pulls it's weight offensively too. Also a gourgeist switchin which is great for offense too. It doesn't wall simisear with knock off though: 0 Atk Life Orb Simisear Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Lampent: 179-213 (55.2 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Even a phys def set is 2hko'd after rocks: 0 Atk Life Orb Simisear Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Lampent: 117-140 (36.1 - 43.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock That said, I think it could even go C. When I said it walled simisear with knock I meant 4 Atk Life Orb Simisear Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Lampent: 120-143 (37.1 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Yup I calced that, but with rocks up it's an almost guaranteed 2hko, so it's v shaky. But as I saw on the origin chat I don't have any problem with this going higher, because it does get a decent amount of switchins with its typing, its STAB combo is great (especially since zwei is rarely seen nowadays) and subcm is kinda neat, B- is fine imo.
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Post by PhoenixElite on Mar 29, 2016 20:41:53 GMT
Dragonair is in there twice. Once in A and once in C+.
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Post by PhoenixElite on Mar 29, 2016 20:42:53 GMT
Dragonair is in there twice. Once in A and once in C+. I mean Once in B+ and once in C+
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Mar 30, 2016 18:39:30 GMT
Dragonair is in there twice. Once in A and once in C+. I mean Once in B+ and once in C+ Fixed, thank you for bringing this to my attention
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Post by Chinese Pooh on Apr 6, 2016 0:02:31 GMT
Hey guys; could we get some discussion on moving snover to c- or c? It's a decent counter to butterfree with soundproof and can the opportunity to set up an SD, recover with synthesis, or be able to shard after SR damage. I know I might be missing some key points about it, but I'm in a bit of a rush so may make another post tomorrow; would just like some discussion on it is all.
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Apr 9, 2016 19:48:59 GMT
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Post by skankovich on Apr 10, 2016 11:08:09 GMT
Agree with most, I'll just pick out the few I disagree with.
Chimecho isn't D bad, we might have a better Healing Wish user now with Lop but it's easily the second best, so scarf isn't an awful choice if you don't want a normal type attacker. It has a pretty broad movepool too, so there's a bunch of random stuff that it can pull off- I used to run a meme cosmic power set that actually wasn't too awful, waaaay back when it was OMotM. Its niche isn't really any smaller than the other mons in C.
Fearow seems a little harsh- a strong, fast Return/Drill Peck/Drill Run is still p nice. Fits in well with the other normal mons in B- I think.
Magmar shouldn't rise while Simisear is still here, there's really very little reason to use it over bork monkey.
Whirl/Veni is iffy- although Veni's extra speed is useful in a simi-infested meta, Whirl's bulk is still useful for checking mons like Simisage and Lop. I'd say both fit in C tbh, maybe keep Veni in C+.
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Apr 10, 2016 17:35:46 GMT
Agree with most, I'll just pick out the few I disagree with. Chimecho isn't D bad, we might have a better Healing Wish user now with Lop but it's easily the second best, so scarf isn't an awful choice if you don't want a normal type attacker. It has a pretty broad movepool too, so there's a bunch of random stuff that it can pull off- I used to run a meme cosmic power set that actually wasn't too awful, waaaay back when it was OMotM. Its niche isn't really any smaller than the other mons in C. Fearow seems a little harsh- a strong, fast Return/Drill Peck/Drill Run is still p nice. Fits in well with the other normal mons in B- I think. Magmar shouldn't rise while Simisear is still here, there's really very little reason to use it over bork monkey. Whirl/Veni is iffy- although Veni's extra speed is useful in a simi-infested meta, Whirl's bulk is still useful for checking mons like Simisage and Lop. I'd say both fit in C tbh, maybe keep Veni in C+. If other people agree I'll probs make some more changes, but the magmar change was called for imho, since it has an immunity to sleep and has way more bulk thanks to eviolite. If more people bring these mons under question then I'll edit the VR some more.
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Post by Chinese Pooh on Apr 21, 2016 19:56:45 GMT
I think I'm with Skankovich in regards to the Chimecho ands Magmar changes, Chimecho might only be the second best Healing Wish pokemon, but it can still pull of some interesting sets like the aforementioned cosmic power set. With Magmar it's not doing as good to be all the way in B+, while the bulk, vital spirit and higher SpA can be nice I suppose, it's movepool is just a bit too limited in all honesty, and when Simisear has a better speed tier comparatively to it and plenty of options in regards to sets, Magmar kinda falls behind. B I think is still fine for it, but B+ may be pushing it. While we are talking about fire types though, Heatmor could probably stand to drop another sub rank, it's offenses are pretty good and movepool gives it a few toys to play with, however that speed can be a bit crippling; potentially forcing it to run a scarfed set, which it would struggle in running due to its lackluster speed, or to always run sucker punch, which isn't exactly the greatest priority move out there, otherwise you're probably better off running Magmar or Simisear, both of which while (barely) having less SpA, have much better speed tiers other all (Magmar also has better bulk, so there's that a well).
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Apr 21, 2016 23:38:57 GMT
I think I'm with Skankovich in regards to the Chimecho ands Magmar changes, Chimecho might only be the second best Healing Wish pokemon, but it can still pull of some interesting sets like the aforementioned cosmic power set. With Magmar it's not doing as good to be all the way in B+, while the bulk, vital spirit and higher SpA can be nice I suppose, it's movepool is just a bit too limited in all honesty, and when Simisear has a better speed tier comparatively to it and plenty of options in regards to sets, Magmar kinda falls behind. B I think is still fine for it, but B+ may be pushing it. While we are talking about fire types though, Heatmor could probably stand to drop another sub rank, it's offenses are pretty good and movepool gives it a few toys to play with, however that speed can be a bit crippling; potentially forcing it to run a scarfed set, which it would struggle in running due to its lackluster speed, or to always run sucker punch, which isn't exactly the greatest priority move out there, otherwise you're probably better off running Magmar or Simisear, both of which while (barely) having less SpA, have much better speed tiers other all (Magmar also has better bulk, so there's that a well). While I can see why you guys don't agree with Magmar, I just cannot agree with chimecho. What's all this talk about chimecho being the only other Healing Wish user? I'm sure we all know this is very untrue, seeing as how we have Cherrim here, who happens to be unranked. I honestly feel like chimecho might have to drop more, if not stay where it is.I believe that Cherrim should be moved to C+ rank, seeing as it's a decently fast, strong grass type with access to dazzling gleam, energy ball, and healing wish. Although Cherrim is lower on the On another somewhat related note, I believe that Cherrim should be moved to C+ rank, seeing as it's a decently fast, strong grass type with access to dazzling gleam, energy ball, and healing wish. Although Cherrim isn't fast enough to compete with the simis, sawsbuck, or even ponyta, it also happens to be in a speed tier that allows it to reliably use healing wish late game (it speed ties with golduck, another great mon with utility in and out of rain [but mostly in]). Overall nice viable healing wish option for teams (unlike chimecho imo).
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Post by funbot28 on May 18, 2016 21:48:59 GMT
Here are some noms I would like to see: A+ ---> SBetween Shell Smash and Coil sets, Huntail is a fearsome sweeper in ZU. The ability to go mixed and its ability to beat its checks with Sucker Punch allows it to deal with most of the common "answers" it has. Specially Defensive Wartortle with Mirror Coat is really the only answer that can fully deal with it. The strain it puts on teambuilding as the opponent needs to scout which set they are facing just pushes its capabilities of being one of the best wallbreaker after Simisear's departure, and for these reasons it should be S. Unranked ---> A-/ASo after Mightyena dropped, I immediately tried it out and its honestly been putting in a lot of work. All-out-Attacker sets with Crunch/Sucker Punch/Fire Fang/Play Rough is what I have been using and after it gets a few Moxie boosts, it really becomes scary. Its also pretty fast for an offensive pokemon and is quite powerful with a Life Orb attached. It does get somewhat walled by physically defensive Volbeat and Wigglytuff and faces fear competition with Krokorok, but it is pretty on par with it (despite lacking nice Ground STAB. Maybe A is a bit too much, but definitely A-. B+ ---> A-Seriously underrated threat right now. Steel typing is very good in ZU especially since our previously best Fire type got banned. Steel/Normal coverage is also not too bad as besides Wartortle, there aren't really many Steel resists in the tier. It has many opportunities to setup especially if it carries Substitute, and Shift Gear is such a good setup move for it. Lum Berry can also deal with Volbeat, and it won't be able to do much to you behind the Sub. Definitely should go to A- imo. So these are just some things I wanted to talk about before I give some more opinions
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