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Post by PrincessHigh on Feb 8, 2016 17:04:58 GMT
Credit goes to Acast for creating the banner!
These are the Viability Rankings for the ZU tier. Pokemon are ranked based on their positive and/or negative traits, including their splashability, effect on the metagame, and reliability, as well as numerous other factors. All Pokemon from ranks S to A- are ranked in order of viability, while the rest are alphabetical. If you'd like to see a Pokemon change rank, please leave a constructive post here detailing the rank you'd like to see the Pokemon moved to, and provide evidence to support your reasoning. Remember, The V.R is constantly fluctuating to accommodate the meta as new Pokemon leave and enter the tier.
New Pokemon Rank - Pokemon that have recently dropped to ZU and are in need of official placement on the V.R.
S Rank - Pokemon that fair excellently in ZU. If any Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, they are generally eclipsed by the pokemon's merits.
S
 Simipour
 Simisage
 Electabuzz
A Rank - Pokemon that perform amazingly in ZU, but have a few flaws that hold them back from being S rank material.
A+  Gourgeist-Large
 Huntail  Murkrow
A  Quilladin
A-  Regigigas
B Rank - Pokemon that perform exceptionally well in ZU, while they may have noticeable flaws that hold them back, these are mostly mitigated by their merits.
B+  Beartic  Dusclops  Glaceon Gourgeist-Small  Luxray  Mienfoo Pikachu
 Scraggy Swalot
 Wigglytuff
B  Fearow  Girafarig  Hippopotas
 Meganium Slaking
 Sliggoo  Trapinch  Vibrava  Volbeat  Whirlipede
B-
 Bronzor
 Carbink
 Chinchou
 Dragonair Dustox Furfrou
 Gastly
 Honedge
 Lampent
 Meowstic-F Palpitoad Persian Pidgeot Seaking Seviper Whishcash
C Rank - Pokemon that are generally mediocre in ZU. While they do have a few merits to warrant them on teams, they have multiple flaws that greatly hinder from being used over higher ranked Pokemon.
C+  Cherrim
 Diglett
 Lickitung
 Natu
 Onix
 Phione
 Shedinja
 Snubbull  Wormadam-Sandy
E Rank - Pokemon that are outright unviable in ZU. These Pokemon may have one notable niche, but have way too many flaws to warrant use on any serious team.
E
 Ariados
 Bastiodon
 Beautifly
 Carnivine
 Castform
 Corsola
 Dedenne
 Delcatty
 Delibird
 Dewgong
 Farfetch'd  Furret
 Illumise
 Ledian
 Luvdisc  Minun
 Mothim
 Pachirisu
 Plusle
 Spinda
 Sudowoodo Sunflora
 Unown
 Vespiquen
 Watchog
 Wobbuffet
 Wormadam
~All Credit go to Piscean for creating this! ~
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59 
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Post by Slar Flar on Feb 8, 2016 22:46:41 GMT
Great seeing that the VR is finally on the forums! Now we finally have a place to discuss ranks and viability  speaking of which...
Maractus from B- to B
 I saw Maractus in B- rank and at first I thought that it was complete garbage. Why should it even BE B- rank?! It looks mediocre at best! Then, it was revealed to me by PrincessHigh that heat rock was unbanned... after I thought about it, it seemed that unbanning heat rock was the right thing to do. After sawsbuck moving up (or banning I have no idea which), I feel that sun is more balanced than before, and now only one mon needs to be banned. I've gone on enough about heat rock though. Maractus is blessed with the wonderful ability chlorophyll, which gives it a niche over other grass types in the tier. Another thing that carves it a niche in the tier as a wonderful sun abuser is knock off, the wonderfully broken move that we all have a love/hate relationship with. Along with this, Maractus packs a VERY heavy punch with the wonderful stab option in Wood Hammer. These factors, along with its decent 86 attack and 60 speed (faster and stronger than Weepinbell :]) make it a supreme sun sweeper. The only things holding it back from getting higher imho is its lack of versatility out of sun (basically limited to spiker), how crippled it is without the sun up, and how much recoil it takes with life orb + how little damage it does with its other moves without it. With all of these taken into consideration, I feel that Maractus definitely deserves to be a B rank. |
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Feb 10, 2016 4:16:05 GMT
MEGANIUM TO B+ RANK, BELLOSSOM TO B- RANK  ARGUMENT:I think this chat log between me and Tsundere Vader will be a good enough argument
Slar Flar: Oh, btw Happy Dino is pretty good in FU IMO Tsundere Vader: Please tell me they did Meganium justice on the VR Slar Flar: I think they did o3o Tsundere Vader: Thank god Slar Flar: Um Slar Flar: Um Slar Flar: Umum Slar Flar: Um Slar Flar: Um Tsundere Vader: What's Tsundere Vader: wrong Slar Flar: Lets just say that Bellossom and Meganium are both B rank, but one is + and one is - Slar Flar: and I crie Tsundere Vader: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Tsundere Vader: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Tsundere Vader: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Tsundere Vader: , Tsundere Vader: , Tsundere Vader: , Tsundere Vader: ,, Tsundere Vader: ,
Yeah in short Bellossom is outdone by Meganium is every way except sun abuser and slow bulky attacker which Bellossom also faces competition from other mons for that.
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Post by skankovich on Feb 10, 2016 12:29:27 GMT
I definitely agree with a Bellossom drop, as it has very little to make it worth using over our other bulky grass attackers. It has moonblast yeah, but the only relevant grass resist that hits is Zweilous, which isn't prevalent enough to be worth using over say, Gogoat, who is stronger, faster, bulkier and has more useful coverage on both physical and special sides. Really, all it has is sleep powder and sun sets, which is nice, but nowhere near B+ nice. I really can't see it deserving much more than C+, since it even has a lot of competition as a special sun sweeper.
The same kinda goes for Meganium, it's difficult to justify its place on a team. Swords Dance isn't awful but like, its speed isn't great, it's power isn't great, its coverage is meh... just overall underwhelming in my experience. I like it as a screens setter but that's kind of it, with so many good grass mons in the tier it just doesn't stand out. It can be used as a wall, but the only reason I'd use it over Gourgeist/Goat/Quill is its access to aromatherapy- something Bellossom lacks, so uh, that's another reason not to use Bellossom :[
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Feb 11, 2016 23:35:08 GMT
After skimming through the usage for PU in February to make sure we didn't miss anything, I've stumbled upon two major things. This first major thing I noticed was the addition of Solrock to the metagame: | 83 | Solrock | 1.905% |  unranked -> C+Solrock is a really cool mon in PU, but honestly in the FU metagame I feel that it will be very mediocre. Stats aren't anything to write home about, with its defensive stats being 70/85/65 and the offensive stats being 95 and 55. Speed is decent enough at 70, and this paired with its almost completely unique rock/psychic typing *cough* Lunatone *cough* and access to decent utility moves like will-o-wisp and stealth rock can give this mon a niche. Too bad it's destroyed by a lot of very common pokemon including Simipour and Simisage, Frogadier, Golduck, Huntail, etc. Overall I doubt this will be anything too notable in the tier. On the other hand, the other drop we had that everyone seemed to miss is FAR more interesting towards the metagame: | 68 | Wartortle | 2.553% | | 69 | Sawsbuck | 2.537% || 70 | Meowstic | 2.496% | Hidden away between wartortle and Meowstic on the usage data, SAWSBUCK can be seen as a drop to FU, with a very lo 2.537% usage.  I'm sure we all know what Sawsbuck dropping would mean. Sun would be absolutely broken. Sawsbuck+Simisear was a major reason behind the banning of heat rock before. Sawsbuck's amazing stats would overall make sun way too overpowerd for the metagame Instead of banning Sawsbuck and/or Simisear, however, I actually propose we quickban or retest heat rock  as the metagame would actually find some unbalance with Simisear being gone, as we lack other viable fire types to take its place. This, on top of the fact that sun's other abusers, such as Weepinbell, Bellossom, Ivysaur, and Maractus are all pretty insane on sun, causing a lot of teams to have to run some form of counter. Sure the counters aren't that hard to put on teams, but it still limits teambuilding, and I feel that sun is overall unhealthy for the meta. I will give my opinion on Sawsbuck's rank after a decision is made on whether Sawsbuck should be banned and possibly Simisear also banned, or if heat rock is rebanned instead. |
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Post by manofmany on Feb 14, 2016 19:01:39 GMT
OMG, Huntail needs to be in A+ or S. It doesn't set up so easy, but it still sets up on a ton of things. And once it sets up it is just ridiculously hard to stop a sweep, especially for offensive teams. You have prankster T-wave and then you have other stuff like SpD Gourgeist that can be EASILY worn down and that's it.
Also RANK Trubbish. It's a good pokemon, it's super bulky with unKnockable Eviolite and sets up spikes on a ton of things. Has survivability with low HP pain split as well. This was already decided pretty much unanimously by us PU people before we came to this server.
Spinda sucks in practice, shouldn't be in B at all. If you want a sweeper there are so many better choices. The stats just make it too hard to ever pull off a sweep.
Octillery and Heatmor need to move down a lot. It's pretty much obvious that they are vastly outclassed by Simipour and Simisear respectively. Besides that, they aren't all that good by themselves, being slow and having not a lot of bulk. There's a reason they were ranked kind of low in all other FU ranking threads.
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Feb 16, 2016 23:50:06 GMT
OMG, Huntail needs to be in A+ or S. It doesn't set up so easy, but it still sets up on a ton of things. And once it sets up it is just ridiculously hard to stop a sweep, especially for offensive teams. You have prankster T-wave and then you have other stuff like SpD Gourgeist that can be EASILY worn down and that's it. Also RANK Trubbish. It's a good pokemon, it's super bulky with unKnockable Eviolite and sets up spikes on a ton of things. Has survivability with low HP pain split as well. This was already decided pretty much unanimously by us PU people before we came to this server. Spinda sucks in practice, shouldn't be in B at all. If you want a sweeper there are so many better choices. The stats just make it too hard to ever pull off a sweep. Octillery and Heatmor need to move down a lot. It's pretty much obvious that they are vastly outclassed by Simipour and Simisear respectively. Besides that, they aren't all that good by themselves, being slow and having not a lot of bulk. There's a reason they were ranked kind of low in all other FU ranking threads. Huntail is fine where it is since it's not not easy to revenge kill and has a bunch of other issues with it. Trubbish is something that might be ranked but again it faces competition. Spinda does suck and will be dropping, and octillery and heatmor will probably be dropping too. (Edit: Misread or as to) |
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Post by skankovich on Feb 18, 2016 23:13:10 GMT
Seviper to A-/B+Seviper is rarely seen any more, and I think there's a reason why. It's fallen out of favour as a scarfer since it's not especially strong or fast, and poison resists are relatively plentiful. I feel like for a scarfer that slow it needs to be really powerful, like say Mienfoo (Which should replace Meditite- STAB is basically as strong but Mienfoo outspeeds Persian which is big and gets knock off and u-turn, and u-turn is especially good for a scarfer), but Seviper is in an awkward place where it's not either of them. It's outsped by our most common speed boosting sweepers in the form of Butterfree, Whiscash, subsalac Simis, dd dragonair etc and doesn't have the power or STAB to clean up a lot of teams. Scarf is its best bet, as otherwise with its meh speed and poor bulk it struggles to do much, like poison type is nice but it can't even switch into Simisage, which is like the #1 poison job. LO isn't awful but with such powerful mixed attackers in the form of the Simis about, with their fantastic speed, it feels very niche. Comparison calcs with other scarfersUnfezant to B-I know this is a huge drop, but this mon is currently really outclassed, I'm not sure why I'd use it over Fearow or Pidgeot. It has a worse speed tier than those two, which leaves it outsped by prominent mons like Sawsbuck, Raticate and in the case of Pidge tying with the Simis, and although it has a powerful Return, its coverage leaves a lot to be desired- it can't make it past Lairon like Fearow can with Drill Run or Pidge with HP Ground if running a special set (Or mixed if ur a lord), and it can't make it past Gourgeist-L unlike Pidge with Brave Bird or Fearow with a band Drill Peck. Not only that, it's overall less bulky than Pidgeot so a bulkier defog/offensive set wouldn't be worth it. Scarf used to be decent but there's very little reason to run it with Sawsbuck here, I'm just not sure when I'd use this over our other options. Gourgeist-L calcs for the sake of comparison
On that note the geists really need to move up, but I'll leave that post for another day.
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Mar 8, 2016 3:02:42 GMT
Well, this one is gonna seem odd, but...  PHIONE FROM E-RANK TO CPhione is a mon I've been experimenting with quite a bit recently, seeing as it's instantly assumed as garbage since it lacks the special movepool or setup moves that its mother Manaphy has. However, The small factor people tend to look over the most tends to be the fact that this thing has an extremely shallow but effective physical movepool. Its movepool, just barely scratching 4 viable physical moves, allows it to actually put in work in the current meta. Choice Band Phione is an effective momentum Pokemon thanks to access to Waterfall, Knock Off, and U-Turn. On top of this, Phione's decent base 80 stats all across the board combined with its water typing allow it to be able to sponge quite a few hits, as well as outspeed some common threats like Krokorok, Modest Butterfree, Luxray, Dragonair, and Standard Tyrunt after a dragon dance. On top of this, it can dent or kill a good chunk of the S through A- ranking mons. This includes countering Simisear (252+ Atk Choice Band Phione Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Simisear: 452-534 (155.3 - 183.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO obviously) and Simipour (252+ Atk Choice Band Phione Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Simipour: 183-216 (62.6 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock), checking Simisage (252+ Atk Choice Band Phione U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Simisage: 264-312 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock) and Sawsbuck to some extent (252+ Atk Choice Band Phione U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sawsbuck: 244-288 (81 - 95.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock). On top of this, it can dent Electabuzz (252+ Atk Choice Band Phione Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Electabuzz: 163-193 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) and Huntail (252+ Atk Choice Band Phione Frustration vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Huntail: 127-150 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) which can't even hit it back even after a shell smash, 2HKOs Lairon, can cripple Lopunny by removing its choice band, outspeeds and kills Krokorok (-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Phione Waterfall vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Krokorok: 258-306 (95.9 - 113.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock), the list goes on and on. Furthermore, it can run a life orb mixed set too, which allows it to take on Butterfree much easier, and grant it access to Rest when used on Rain teams. Overall, Phione can do a lot for a Pokemon with a shallow movepool. However, due to the fact that it has a shallow movepool, making it somewhat predictable, Phione is very much a two-trick pony, along with its only decent 80 stats. For this reason, I believe Phione is definitely deserving of at least a C rank. I will be posting the Choice band set on the Creative Effective and underrated threats, and I will link to it when Finished. The life orb set is still undergoing testing, but I will put the link here for anyone that would like to use it: pastebin.com/pHx0Px6N |
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Krokorok
Jumpluff
Wartortle
Duosion
Klang
Servine 
Lairon
Golduck
Purugly
Raticate
Politoed
Zweilous
Butterfree
Lopunny
Meowstic-M
Sawsbuck
Vanilluxe
Frogadier
Pignite 
Glalie
Gogoat
Swoobat
Magmar
Gigalith
Heatmor 
Mightyena 
Munchlax
Noctowl
Shelgon
Anorith 
Carvanha
Chimecho
Croconaw 
Ditto
Dwebble 
Emolga 
Gothitelle
Hypno 
Lunatone
Marshtomp
Octillery
Stantler
Staryu
Venipede 
Walrein
Wormadam-Trash 
Banette
Bellossom
Dunsparce 
Frillish 
Kricketune
Magcargo 
Maractus
Masquerain
Meditite 
Solrock 
Staravia
Wailord
Beedrill
Bibarel
Magnemite
Spritzee
Tentacool
Tropius
Unfezant 
Weepinbell
speaking of which...
Golduck to A
Lopunny to A
Meowstic to A-
Meowstic-F to B+
Glalie to B+
Vibrava to B-
Volbeat to A
Joke to C+
