Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Sept 22, 2016 21:45:46 GMT
Gourgiest-Large to S --> Agree Currently, The Gourgeists have a grip on the FU tier that is kinda obnoxious honestly, specifically because of the flexibility the mon itself has thanks to its 3 forms. Gourgiest-Large is arguably the best one in the tier, and for good reason. Thanks to its amazing bulk, it walls just about everything in the tier honestly, and even more of the tier with items like colbur and yache berry available. While we're on the topic of Gourgeist...
Gourgeist to B-, Gourgeist-small to A- Both of the other Gourgeists have similar reasons as to why I feel they're viable. Their typings are amazing, and they have really nice bulk. Gourgeist-Small has an awesome speed tier of 99, allowing it to outspeed everything bar Fearow and above, which allows it to be a great bulky utility/annoyance mon. Honestly very underused at the moment. Gourgeist-Regular, on the other hand, is in my honest opinion the most offensive of the Gourgeists. With its 90 attack and 84 speed, as well as access to stab shadow sneak, Gourgeist is honestly one of my favorite band attacker bar Lopunny. The fact that it's ranked so low is such a shame despite being a great attacker that can fake being large or small before it comes out, allowing for a great surprise to your opponent.
Krokorok to A+ --> Agree Krokorok has been an awesome mon recently, especially with the rise of Gourgeists, and honestly the fall of the Simis (more on this later). It can be a powerful threat with great utility that allows it to handle slower threats. Not much to really say about Krok that other people have already said.
Seviper to B- --> Agree Seviper is, sadly, not doing very well. Honestly, it's a poor choice of poison type when it has so much competition with Swalot, which is basically better in every way except damage output. Thankfully, that niche of damage output keeps it from dropping even lower than B- in my honest opinion, as it allows it to wallbreak threats like Gourgeist and Quilladin. Too bad it's just not very good at the moment.
Staryu to D --> Agree Staryu has a niche as a rather frail but somewhat powerful offensive spinner, as a defensive spinner with natural cure and recover, and the most obvious role, status absorber. Thanks to these stats, I feel Staryu could definitely make it to D rank. Sadly, its bulky sets aren't that bulky and struggle thanks to the competition it has with Wartortle.
Zweilous to A- --> Agree Zweilous is an awesome mon at the moment thanks to the Simis, Gourgeist, and Lickilicky all being popular. its role as a wallbreaker and as a specially defensive phazer are really appreciated in the current Meta. Not a lot I can say about this mon that everyone else probably already knows.
Simipour and Simisage to A+ The Simis, in my honest Opinion, have been falling in popularity ever since Lickilicky came along. The meta, again thanks to Lickilicky, has become a lot fatter and causes Simisage and Simipour to struggle breaking teams. Now that's not to say these mons aren't still great, but its just that their reign over the FU tier is, in my honest opinion, finally over thanks to Lickilicky. Simipour has been losing out on usage thanks to harder hitting waters like Huntail becoming more popular, and Simisage has been losing usage thanks to the type stacking it has with Gourgeist as well as Jumpluff. On the topic of Jumpluff, being weak to such a good mon like Jumpluff as well as mons like Emolga and Lopunny kind of hinder them a lot as well.
I might make more recommendations later on, but these are just the major ones for me.
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Post by 5gen on Sept 22, 2016 22:11:14 GMT
Disagree with Simisage/Simipour going A+. The Lickilicky argument is kind of flawed in the sense that Low Kick from 4 Atk LO Simipour has an 89% chance to 2HKO after rocks, and both Simis are able to run NP Focus Blast to dent. They still do a great job of breaking down teams because of their damage output, coverage and Knock Off will hinder any Eviolite users that may check (i.e Chinchou or Frillish to Simipour). Honestly the only things that really hinder them imo is being outsped by common things like Buzz, Jumpluff or Lopunny and them being frail/susceptible to priority.
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Sept 23, 2016 0:06:08 GMT
Disagree with Simisage/Simipour going A+. The Lickilicky argument is kind of flawed in the sense that Low Kick from 4 Atk LO Simipour has an 89% chance to 2HKO after rocks, and both Simis are able to run NP Focus Blast to dent. They still do a great job of breaking down teams because of their damage output, coverage and Knock Off will hinder any Eviolite users that may check (i.e Chinchou or Frillish to Simipour). Honestly the only things that really hinder them imo is being outsped by common things like Buzz, Jumpluff or Lopunny and them being frail/susceptible to priority. There's the fact that 5 mons in S rank is really cluttered and they're the worse out of all the S ranks honestly lol
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Post by Chinese Pooh on Sept 23, 2016 11:17:58 GMT
Disagree with Simisage/Simipour going A+. The Lickilicky argument is kind of flawed in the sense that Low Kick from 4 Atk LO Simipour has an 89% chance to 2HKO after rocks, and both Simis are able to run NP Focus Blast to dent. They still do a great job of breaking down teams because of their damage output, coverage and Knock Off will hinder any Eviolite users that may check (i.e Chinchou or Frillish to Simipour). Honestly the only things that really hinder them imo is being outsped by common things like Buzz, Jumpluff or Lopunny and them being frail/susceptible to priority. There's the fact that 5 mons in S rank is really cluttered and they're the worse out of all the S ranks honestly lol So then is there just some untold rule I was blissfully ignorant of in which we can't have five S ranked Pokemon? That doesn't really seem that clustered considering we have ranks that have maybe around ten give or take, are you saying we should be clearing those out as well? This is suppose to be ranked based on their performance in FU, if that means five Pokemon are in fact worthy of S status, then those five fit the criteria to be S mentioned in the OP.
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Slar Flar
Junior Member
#FreePoliwrath
Posts: 59
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Post by Slar Flar on Sept 23, 2016 19:01:12 GMT
There's the fact that 5 mons in S rank is really cluttered and they're the worse out of all the S ranks honestly lol So then is there just some untold rule I was blissfully ignorant of in which we can't have five S ranked Pokemon? That doesn't really seem that clustered considering we have ranks that have maybe around ten give or take, are you saying we should be clearing those out as well? This is suppose to be ranked based on their performance in FU, if that means five Pokemon are in fact worthy of S status, then those five fit the criteria to be S mentioned in the OP. well I don't know this is kinda my first rodeo, no other tier really has 5 S ranks, its w e i r d
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Post by Fannyfan on Sept 24, 2016 19:52:53 GMT
I have some noms. Shocking I know
Anorith Unranked to C- I have used Anorith recently, and it is actually a decent offensive spinner and it actually puts in work. It has, while not the best speed tier, base 75 speed, which puts it ahead of defense Pokemon, and wall breakers like heatmor and Zweilous. It outspeeds vibrava! Isn't that right Acast? Also, it has a pretty decent base 95 attack to do some damage with. Now, it has faults. It's not that bulky even with an Eviolite. Also, it has no recovery. And it's typing leaves it weak to rocks and susceptible to every entry hazard, which is kind of dissapointing as a spinner. But as an offensive spinner, it has a niche, and I think it deserves to be ranked. It could also be a scarfer of swift swim sweeper, but it's more outclassed at those roles.
Octillery B- to C+ I think tillery is too highly ranked. It does have great 105/105 offensive stats, and a wide movepool of mostly special moves. However, I don't think it's good enough to be in the b-ranks with Vibrava, Furfrou, and others. I'ts just too outclassed by Simipour to be b- rank. Simipour has a lot more speed, and more (and more useful) physical moves to take advantage of its attack stat and np to set up. Octillery has a wider Special movepool, slightly better defensive stats, and a little bit more powerful (98 offenses vs 105). I keep alluding to this, but tillery also can't take full advantage of it's high attack stat. For physical attack, it has waterfall, gunk shot, return, and seed bomb.
In conclusion, Anorith ranked, Octillery moved down. Also Snubbull ranked, but this post is long enough as-is. Have a great day people of FU
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Post by takeazelfie on Sept 25, 2016 3:28:46 GMT
oo
I'm sort of confused on why Natu is C- and Shedinja is D. To my understanding the only time Natu should ever be used is with Shedinja and Shedinja doesn't need (although most good builds should) Natu. So what I propose is that we drop Natu to D or raise Shedinja to C-. Although I'm more comfortable with the former since Natu frankly isn't good enough for C- imo.
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Post by 5gen on Sept 25, 2016 15:35:07 GMT
oo I'm sort of confused on why Natu is C- and Shedinja is D. To my understanding the only time Natu should ever be used is with Shedinja and Shedinja doesn't need (although most good builds should) Natu. So what I propose is that we drop Natu to D or raise Shedinja to C-. Although I'm more comfortable with the former since Natu frankly isn't good enough for C- imo. Agree with Natu dropping, tbh it straight up loses to the most common Rockers in Krokorok, Lairon, Gigalith, and Wigglytuff (assuming non-Sp Def). Pretty much has a bad match up versus a good chunk of the meta and it's niche in Magic Bounce isn't really desired. Basically gonna be dead weight most of the time and the main thing backing it up is forcing your opp to be more cautious when setting hazards.
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Post by Chinese Pooh on Sept 28, 2016 21:02:58 GMT
Snover unranked Krokorok to A+ Gourgeist-Large to S Staryu to D Natu to D Dedenne to E Zweilous to A Anorith to C- Beedrill to C
Changes that could use more discussion: Simipour to A+ Simisage to A+ Octillery to C Bastiodon to E Bibarel to C Lunatone to C Dustox to C Bellossom to C Fearow to B- Emolga to B- Slaking to B
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bertc
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by bertc on Oct 2, 2016 16:51:20 GMT
Hi there
I would like to make a post about Pignite So as many of you know, Pignite is like the wannabe monferno. Bad speed and meh defenses , it's often a forgotten pokemon. But I feel it's waaaay underrated. I feel it at least deserves A- or B+.
If you look at Pignite, you would not seem too surprised by its 93 attack and 55 speed, however ccombine this with good coverage and high power moves, it's a force to be reckoned with. Moves it can run are for example flare blitz (which is ridiculous on its own), wild charge (for water types), sucker punch (priority is always nice) and superpower (a strong mid- ground move). When you look at common switch ins for this monster (not many since fire + fighting is extremely good, defeats lickilicky + gourgeist)
252+ Atk Choice Band Pignite Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Wartortle: 144-170 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Choice Band Pignite Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Huntail: 248-292 (98.8 - 116.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Choice Band Pignite Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Frillish: 186-220 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock 252+ Atk Choice Band Pignite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Whiscash: 225-265 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (not that that set is used much, just wanna show the damage output 252+ Atk Choice Band Pignite Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Magmar: 270-318 (99.6 - 117.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
So as you can see, it can surely dent some holes in teams. It doesnt really need speed, since its power forces a lot of switches itself. It might be easy to play around the choice band but you're always playing with fire (see what I did there)
As for other items, you can run eviolite to switch in better in magmar, simisage, glaceon, vanilluxe, heatmor,... . You do lose some of your power, but at the cost you take hits better and switch up moves.
The ability I personally prefer is thick fat, so it can even better switch into ice and fire types (so it doesnt get overwhelmed by strong wallbreakers)
Counters for this thing would be vibrava (has recovery and can avoid being 2 hit ko'd) and to an extent carbink, but that cant switch in repeatedly since superpower does around 45%
Conclusion, Pignite is a very good wallbreaker that deals with a large proportion of the meta and is easy to support.
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Post by Chinese Pooh on Oct 2, 2016 19:49:01 GMT
Just a quick reminder to all you fine folks out there that I can't really make many changes without some input, so get to typing already, ya nerds.
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Post by 5gen on Oct 2, 2016 22:23:49 GMT
Changes that could use more discussion: Simipour to A+ Simisage to A+ Octillery to C Bastiodon to E Bibarel to C Lunatone to C Dustox to C Bellossom to C Fearow to B- Emolga to B- Slaking to B Simipour to A+ (disagree) Outside of Pluff dropping, nothing has really made Simipour "worse". Still retains the pressure it has on the tier (i.e speed tier or switch-ins) and it's offensive capabilities haven't taken a hit. Still ridiculous to reliably switch into because of its versatility and sheer power/coverage. Simipour's speed tier is one of the most important benchmarks in the tier, so if you can't outpace 331 speed and you aren't stall gl beating it unharmed.
Simisage to A+ (disagree) Similar to Simipour, only Pluff dropping affected it negatively. You can't deny the pressure Simisage puts on teambuilding. A pokemon with dual 98 offensive stats, 101 speed, and the coverage to boot will always be scary. Reliable counters include bulky Poison-types (Swalot, Dustox) and Wormadam-Trash. Everything in between will crumble, and unlike Lickilicky, changing sets doesn't really ease up on stuff (bar maybe Scarf). Teams will always have trouble dealing with this, like prepping for AoA and Nasty Plot is very difficult. Basically, Simisage is too centralizing for the tier to be A+.
Octillery to C+ (agree) As a Water-type, Octillery's power is unmatched, its bulk average, and speed abysmal...It needs far more support than most other offense Waters for less in return. What it brings to a team is often dead weight or great wallbreaking (meaning it's match-up reliant w/o speed support).In a nutshell, the opportunity cost of running this is too high compared to say Huntail, Simipour, or Golduck.
Bastiodon to E (agree) exists. Magic Coat is the only niche Bastio has at this point tbh.
Bibarel to C (agree) In all honesty there isn't much reason to use Bibarel;Curse has easy counter play (Gourg hard walls, Encore) and is outdone by Munchlax who brings more to a team (bulk and resists). The other set is Suicide Lead Rocker which again is moderate at best, sure Taunt+Rocks is nice but Krokorok is here. Aside from that, Bibarel is really just an average pokemon that is easily exploited in the current meta.
Lunatone to C (agree) Lunatone has two niche sets in Rock Polish 3 attacks and Baton Pass. RP has nice power considering Modest LO and the potential +2 speed means it can clean late game quite easily. The problem lies in it not having much set up opportunities, Rock/Psychic gives it notable weaknesses to common types (Dark, Water). Baton Pass faces similar issues, but with Jumpluff, Krokorok and Lopunny as prominent pokes in the meta, shutting it down is easy.
Dustox to C (disagree) To be frank, I feel Dustox simply outperforms nearly all the C rank mons. Quiver Dance+Iron Defense+Roost literally just wins in a lot of cases because of it's ability to boost all it's stats bar attack (Roost for HP I guess counts), and cannot be whittled down by Toxic because of being part Poison. Speaking of Poison, Bug/Poison typing gives it great defensive utility with resists to Fighting, Grass, Poison, and a neutrality to plenty other types. Worst part is the Fire and Rock weakness, but that's easily made up for (i.e Vibrava). Basically, Dustox can set up on a lot and 1v1 enough of the tier to stay C+.
Bellossom to C (agree) The issue with Bellosom I feel is how outclassed it is in the roles it tries to perform. Defensive is outdone by Meganium in many cases because of it's slightly superior bulk, speed, and access to Dragon Tail and Aromatherapy. Bellosom's edge is the status it can induce, namely paralysis via Stun Spore and sleep with Sleep Powder. Other than that, defensive Bellosom doesn't offer much that other Grass-types won't. Sun Sweeper, the better and more offensive set imo, is Bellosom's main niche. This set can be an excellent late game cleaner. The main issue is the poor coverage and "slow" speed under sun (398 at +2 and HP Fire), meaning it usually can't straight up sweep or spam moves easily, and is forced to predict. For example, a team with either Magmar, Lampent, Lickilicky, a Scarfer like Fearow or Raticate, won't be too by Bellossom. All in all not the best sun abuser or defensive Grass which makes me lean to C.
Fearow to B- (agree) Probably the best attacking bird next to Murkrow is Fearow. Not much can switch into a Choice Banded Fearow as its Normal/Flying STABs hit hard accompanied with Drill Run and U-Turn for coverage. It can bust through common defensive cores like Licky+Gourg-L with simple prediction and revenge kill or clean offense with a Choice Scarf. Fearow can even bring hazard removal via Defog, something which is invaluable for offensive teams. However, it has it's problems. Poor bulk and a slightly awkward base 100 speed tier leave it fearing hits and fast mons such as Lopunny, Jumpluff, and Persian.
Emolga to B- (disagree) Emolga is an interesting poke. It can bring a lot of utility to a team (Nuzzle/Tailwind, Volt Switch/U-Turn/Baton Pass, Electric immunity, Encore, Knock Off, and Taunt) but struggles with 4MSS and effectively pulling off its roles. Emolga is easily walled resulting in it often being dead weight or simply ineffective in terms of attacking. Yes it has the utility to support your team and bring momentum but that's basically it. Emolga can bring amazing support but in a meta with Electabuzz, Limber Lopunny, Heal Bell stall builds (i.e Lickilicky stall), and Jumpluff, what Emolga brings to the table is less desired than before.
Slaking to B (agree) Here's the deal with Slaking: It's a pokemon with under-appreciated breaking capabilities because of Truant. Almost nothing can switch into Slaking because of those 160/95 offenses and insane coverage. Yeah what sucks is that you do have one turn to attack which forces you to predict more often but you're Slaking. You see a Normal resist, it gets dented by Fire Blast or Earthquake (Gourg and Steels namely). Base 100 speed not good enough? Turn that into the most powerful Scarfer in the tier next to Hustle Raticate. Also has great 150/100/65 bulk which not many offensive pokemon can boast. Honestly, Slaking is just a powerhouse of a pokemon sitting in the wrong rank because Truant hinders it.
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Post by takeazelfie on Oct 4, 2016 13:39:33 GMT
Just a reminder to remember that someone needs to take regigigas down
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Post by 5gen on Oct 4, 2016 21:59:54 GMT
Just a reminder to remember that someone needs to take regigigas down Regigigas needed 4.52% usage to quick-rise to PU, but only got 4.46%. On that note: Down to B+ Simply put, Regigigas is overshadowed by Lickilicky, a pokemon who offers more to a team via Wish, Dragon Tail, and not being hindered by Slow Start. The two however do share some notable aspects. Both are fat, powerful Normal-types with access to Knock Off. They each have a form of utility (Wish and Thunder-Wave respectively). Don't get me wrong, Regi has the greater bulk and power, but it's generally going to be ineffective or "dead weight" for five turns because of Slow Start. On the other hand Lickilicky can run a variety of offensive sets which do a better job at luring in checks and has a standalone defensive set in Wish Pass.
Think of it this way: "Why should I use Regigigas when there is a similar pokemon that is better and offers much more?"
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Post by Chinese Pooh on Oct 5, 2016 0:15:34 GMT
S sub ranks have been created! Lickilicky ---> S+ (aKa Lickilicky Rank) Gourgeist-Large ---> S- Bastiondon ---> E Bibarel ---> C Lunatone ---> C Octillery ---> C+ Bellossom ---> C Fearow ---> B- Slaking ---> B Regigigas ---> B+
Changes that could use some discussion: Huntail ---> S- Ariados ---> D Murkrow ---> S- Castform ---> E Mothim ---> E Corsola ---> E Dewgong ---> C- / D Or E Pignite ---> B- OR B Phione ---> C- / D OR E Frillish ---> C
This is also a reminder that the above things I have listed aren't necessarily the only things you guys can nominate, if you'd like to make your own, fill free to do so, but I feel these are some things that could be worth some sort of discussion.
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